What happens when two creators who met on Substack decide to go live with zero agenda and just talk? You get one of the most honest conversations about addiction, awareness, and what it actually means to build something you care about.
Orel — the developer behind WriteStack, a productivity tool built specifically for Substack creators — joined Josh Woll for a spontaneous Substack Live session that quickly turned into something far more meaningful than a product demo. What started as an introduction turned into a deep exploration of how we use distraction to escape discomfort, how addiction shows up in unexpected places, and why the simple act of pausing can change everything.
Orel’s story mirrors so many of ours in ways you might not expect. His addiction wasn’t alcohol — it was video games. For 16 years, from age 8 to 24, gaming consumed him in ways he didn’t fully understand until a family vacation moment forced him to see it clearly. His path out? Reading books during COVID. His path back to himself? Awareness — the same practice at the core of everything The Sober Creative is about.
Show Notes
[00:00] Introductions — Two Creators, One Unscripted Conversation
Josh introduces himself as the founder of The Sober Creative, focused on helping people understand that alcohol is a barrier to building the life they want
Orel, who built WriteStack, jumped on after a spontaneous invite — no script, no agenda
Both Josh (44, sober 5.5 years) and Orel had deep histories with substance and behavioral patterns they didn’t initially recognize as addiction
The casual format created space for radical honesty from the very first minute
Key Insight: “My focus in my newsletter is helping people realize that alcohol is a barrier towards basically like building a life of your dreams.” — Josh
[00:56] Redefining Addiction — It’s Not What You Think
Josh breaks down the word addiction itself: “add” + “iction” (friction) — something rising in the body that causes discomfort, and a need to add something to ease it
This reframe removes the shame from the word. People aren’t broken — they’re responding to friction
Alcohol, video games, food, sex — all serve the same function: temporarily easing internal discomfort
Awareness becomes the first and most powerful step: once you can see the pattern, you can begin working with it
Key Insight: “The addiction of adding something to help ease and help you feel better when you feel discomfort in your mind and body is what I think addiction is. And so it’s not a problem. People don’t have a problem.” — Josh
[06:37] Orel’s Story — 16 Years of Gaming and the Moment That Changed It
Orel started playing video games at age 8 — MapleStory, then League of Legends and beyond
At his peak, he’d play 12+ hours a day during school breaks, going to sleep thinking about the game and waking up just to get back to it
The turning point came on a rare family vacation: he lied about feeling sick to stay in the hotel room and play — then felt so awful mid-game that he closed the laptop and went outside
“That was kind of the moment that your awareness... started kicking in.” It didn’t change his behavior immediately — but it planted a seed
Key Insight: “I thought I could play some games here. And so I told them that I don’t want to, I don’t feel so good. And I came up with some excuses... And then the moment they left, I opened my laptop and played a game. And throughout this game, I felt so awful that I just stayed in the room and I didn’t go out.” — Orel
[10:03] Replacing One Addiction with Another — and Why That’s Common
During COVID at age 24, Orel discovered books — and reading slowly replaced gaming
It took about 18 months of consistent reading before the pull of gaming faded
Josh reflects that this pattern is incredibly common: “There’s some unmet need that’s buried underneath all this shit” — and we keep searching for something to fill it
Both men share how sobriety and letting go of addictive patterns opened the door to real optimization: meditation, sleep, fitness, intentional living
Josh talks about the compounding effects of five and a half years without alcohol — each practice reinforcing the next
Key Insight: “Throughout the past five and a half years, it’s given me the opportunity to be with more uncomfortable emotions and just let them kind of come up and feel them and move through them versus like, oh, I need to escape.” — Josh
[16:56] The Trigger-Thought Loop — Why We Escape Without Knowing It
Orel shares a real-time example: when stress spikes while working on WriteStack, he opens chess.com, plays 30-40 minutes, then feels awful — losing both time and momentum
Josh explains the neuroscience behind it: we have 60,000 to 70,000 thoughts per day — a trigger thought flashes by so quickly that by the time you’re acting on the discomfort, you’ve already forgotten what started it
He describes it like Velcro: once you’re in a reactive state, everything starts sticking — small annoyances become catastrophic
The antidote isn’t willpower. It’s building the muscle of pausing — catching yourself in the moment before the escape behavior kicks in
Key Insight: “I feel like there’s some Velcro too, right? Like when you get into that state, you’re more prone to the things that don’t typically bother you. And they just kind of exacerbate and grow on top of that.” — Josh
[23:08] Practical Awareness Tools — Meditation, Breath, and the Chair Exercise
Orel shares a deceptively simple practice: count every time you sit down or get up from a chair throughout the day — just to practice noticing
Josh connects this directly to meditation: the breath is the anchor you keep returning to when thoughts pull you away — same principle, different form
Orel opens up about having meditated consistently for three years, then stopping — and only realizing what he’d lost after quitting, when even five minutes felt impossible
“The thing about meditation, it’s harder to notice, way harder to notice than the gym” — the gains are invisible until they’re gone
Key Insight: “You can’t just hit brakes on a Ferrari when you’re going 100-plus miles per hour.” — Josh
[30:17] The Substack Live Ecosystem — Growth, WriteStack, and Authentic Community
Dr Sam Illingworth (a top Substack creator) shared inside information: Substack is pushing live hard in 2026, actively pushing notifications and building a Substack TV app for smart TVs
Orel is building WriteStack with intention — refusing to add auto-DMs, AI-generated comments, or automated engagement features that feel like spam
“Just because you can doesn’t mean you should” — both Josh and Orel align on preserving the human, authentic feel of Substack
Orel’s engagement formula: likes = 1 point, comments = 5 points, restacks = 10 points — and his data shows engagement is directly correlated with subscriber growth
Key Insight: “I just don’t want to automate the direct message. That’s the worst, I think. On Twitter, it’s just awful. And I don’t want it to be, at least not on WriteStack.” — Orel
[34:36] WriteStack — What It Does and What’s Coming
WriteStack is a productivity layer built on top of Substack — helping creators manage their activity center with keyboard shortcuts, streamlined commenting, and smarter engagement workflows
Josh’s favorite feature: the activity center, which lets you fly through 30-50 comments and replies quickly and intentionally
A new Follows feature is coming — allowing creators to track only the notes and comments from specific writers they choose, without scrolling the full feed
Orel is also working on a Substack chat replacement with real search, tagging, and better organization — staying true to the platform’s values while filling in the gaps
Key Insight: “I feel like that’s a really strong one because you have 30, 40, 50 replies and comments and such that you need to go through. And having the quick keys — just such a nerd about those quick keys.” — Josh
Key Quotes
“The addiction of adding something to help ease and help you feel better when you feel discomfort in your mind and body is what I think addiction is. And so it’s not a problem. People don’t have a problem.” — Josh
“Throughout the past five and a half years, it’s given me the opportunity to be with more uncomfortable emotions and just let them kind of come up and feel them and move through them versus like, oh, I need to escape.” — Josh
“I felt so awful that I just stayed in the room and I didn’t go out. That’s when I started realizing how big of a problem it is.” — Orel
“You can’t just hit brakes on a Ferrari when you’re going 100-plus miles per hour.” — Josh
“I just don’t like when people write AI comments to me, then I won’t give others the option to do that through WriteStack.” — Orel
Resources Mentioned
WriteStack — A Substack productivity tool with activity center, keyboard shortcuts, a Follows feature (coming soon), and an enhanced chat replacement in development
Substack Live — Substack’s live video feature, actively being pushed by the platform in 2026
Substack TV — A new app allowing Substack content to be viewed on smart TVs via Google
OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) — Mentioned as a tool for streaming/screen sharing
MapleStory / League of Legends — Referenced as examples in Orel’s gaming addiction story
Sacred Business Flow — The coaching program (with coaches Phil and Carolina) that helped Josh shape the vision for The Sober Creative
The concept of 60,000–70,000 daily thoughts — Referenced from Josh’s reading on neuroscience and the brain’s threat-detection wiring
Where to Find Orel and WriteStack
Orel is the creator of WriteStack and The Indiepreneur, a tool designed to help Substack writers engage more efficiently and authentically.
Find him on Substack and look for WriteStack — you can connect with him there and follow his work as new features roll out in 2026. He’s also planning more Substack Lives in the coming weeks before heading to Thailand for three weeks.
Thank You
A heartfelt thank you to Florence Acosta, Shah Huzaifa, Soundarya Soundararajan, and to Orel for showing up with such openness and authenticity. Conversations like this one — raw, unscripted, and real — are exactly why this community exists.
Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.
If You're In That Gap
This conversation touched on something we talk about a lot here at The Sober Creative: the gap between knowing something needs to change and actually doing the work to change it.
Orel knew at 21 his gaming had become a problem. It took until 26 to shift. Josh knew alcohol was slowing him down years before he finally committed — and that commitment was the moment everything changed.
If you’re somewhere in that gap right now — if something is adding friction to your life and your creative work — the first step isn’t a program. It’s honesty.
Answer 10 questions about where you actually are. I’ll look at your responses and send you a personal video within 24 hours with what I’m seeing and what might be possible for you.
No categories. No instant score. Just a real conversation about what’s actually going on.
