Whether you’re walking 500 miles across Spain or choosing to step away from alcohol, both journeys ask the same things of you: the willingness to face the unknown, the courage to let go of what’s no longer serving you, and the humility to ask for help. As Rebecca put it during our conversation, “The language of sobriety is a lot of the language of pilgrimage.” Both are about becoming. Both are about community. And both require you to stop performing and start being present.

We talk about my five and a half years of sobriety, the power of public accountability, how the 30-Day Reset creates a container for transformation, what the Spanish approach to alcohol can teach us, and why we’re putting a Sober Creative Camino out into the universe. This one goes deep—and it goes wide.

Show Notes

[0:00] — Introductions & Finding the Unexpected Overlap

• Rebecca introduces herself as the host of The Camino Calls and shares her mission to help walkers—especially those 45 and over—plan their journeys on the Camino de Santiago.

• When Rebecca first heard about Josh’s sobriety coaching work, she thought it had little to do with her. Following his writing changed that perspective entirely.

• The discovery that launched this conversation: the parallels between physical pilgrimage and sobriety as an inward journey are deep and undeniable.

Key Insight: “What I’ve learned—things about awareness and about choice and how we choose to walk through our lives.” — Rebecca Weston

[1:15] — The Sober Creative: Merging Two Paths

• Josh shares how The Sober Creative was born from merging his nearly 20-year career as a filmmaker and video producer with his personal sobriety journey.

• A documentary he worked on about NASCAR driver Kyle Larson is coming to Amazon Prime—an example of the creative work that has flourished in sobriety.

• Josh describes his relationship with alcohol not as extreme, but as coping-based: using it to deal with difficult emotions rather than for recreation.

• Five and a half years sober, the gains have been profound: energy, sleep quality, gym performance, and creativity have all transformed.

Key Insight: “It’s really about creating a more intentional life—and not allowing alcohol to be kind of the centerpiece of decisions that you might make throughout the day or at the end of the day if you feel like you need it.” — Josh Woll

[4:24] — Navigating Social Pressure Without Drinking

• Rebecca asks about the real challenge: What do you say when you’re in a social setting, choosing not to drink, and people push back?

• Josh’s approach: keep it short and simple. “I don’t feel like it right now.” No long explanation needed.

• The more you make it a thing, the more it becomes a thing. Lean into the decision, let it move through quickly, and get into the actual connection.

• Rebecca shares a Camino parallel: pilgrims who choose luggage transport instead of carrying a pack sometimes face judgment on the trail. The lesson is the same—you don’t owe anyone an explanation.

Key Insight: “If you just step into that and just honor that decision, it moves through quickly and you can get into the conversation and the connection—and that’s really what it’s about.” — Josh Woll

[11:40] — Sobriety as Pilgrimage: The Inward Journey

• Both sobriety and the Camino share the same language: facing the unknown, making difficult changes, finding people to let go of, and asking for help.

• Josh describes sobriety as a pilgrimage inward—a lifelong internal journey to figure out who we’re becoming.

• He tracked his patterns for two years before making a public commitment to abstain from alcohol for a full year. That public accountability was a major turning point.

• At three months in, Josh knew alcohol wasn’t going to give him anything moving forward. His choice became his power.

Key Insight: “Sobriety is like a pilgrimage inward—it’s this internal journey to navigate and kind of figure out who we’re becoming. And it’s not like a set destination.” — Josh Woll

[15:27] — The 30-Day Reset: A Container for Awareness

• The Reset is open to anyone who drinks—whether someone is ready to quit entirely or simply wants to see what a month without alcohol feels like.

• The January Reset included daily emails, weekly one-hour group meetings, a WhatsApp community, and guided meditations—multiple entry points so participants could engage on their own terms.

• The greatest takeaway for participants: the ability to step back and become aware of things they hadn’t noticed before.

• Josh plans to run the Reset four times in 2025. The Spring Reset launches April 1st.

Key Insight: “I think that’s the strongest thing that I think people came away from was the ability to step back and be aware of certain things that they didn’t really have before.” — Josh Woll

[25:41] — The Sober Creative Method™ & One-on-One Coaching

• The Sober Creative Method™ is Josh’s 90-day coaching framework built on three phases: Release → Create → Become.

• Release: letting go not just of drinking habits, but of the thought patterns around why you chose to drink.

• Create: building new structures, rhythms, and expressions of who you’re becoming.

• Become: stepping fully into the version of yourself that was waiting on the other side.

• One-on-one coaching is described as holding up a mirror gently—reflecting back patterns and possibilities without pressure or judgment.

Key Insight: “It’s really just kind of being a mirror and holding up the mirror in a gentle, kind way—hey, I’m seeing this and what do you think of trying this this week?” — Josh Woll

[28:09] — Building the Sober Creative Collective

• Josh is developing a monthly membership community—the Sober Creative Collective—for people who want to live an intentional, sober life and sustain it over time.

• The Collective will include workshops, weekly prompts, and community connection that feeds into and alongside the Resets and one-on-one coaching.

• A viewer comment during the live conversation captured Josh’s approach perfectly: “You don’t break a pattern with force, and Josh has the gentleness that it takes to help.”

• Josh’s philosophy: “I’m not a big fan of labels. If you label a person, it’s a bit of feeling constrained. We’re meant to expand and grow and lean into possibility.”

Key Insight: “Alcohol is a means that kind of takes that away from us—that ability to expand and grow and lean into possibility.” — Josh Woll

[32:10] — What Spain Can Teach Us About Alcohol & A Sober Creative Camino

• Rebecca shares observations from living in Spain: alcohol there is cultural and social, not escapist. People nurse a glass of wine. They’re not drinking to get drunk.

• Spain reportedly has the most bars per capita in the world, yet very low alcoholism rates—a difference Josh attributes to intention and community.

• The concept of la vida en la calle—life in the streets—means socializing happens outside, unhurried, with no server pressure to keep ordering.

• The episode closes with a desired wish: Josh and Rebecca would create a Sober Creative Camino—a future collaboration they’re inviting people to dream about with them.

Key Insight: “It’s about the support that you get from the people around you—and it’s not about the drink.” — Josh Woll

Key Quotes

“Sobriety is like a pilgrimage inward—it’s this internal journey to navigate and kind of figure out who we’re becoming. And it’s not like a set destination.” — Josh Woll

“I wake up and it’s like, I’m so tired, I’m so tired of being tired.” — Josh Woll

“I have a choice—my choice is kind of my power right now.” — Josh Woll

“The language of sobriety is a lot of the language of pilgrimage.” — Rebecca Weston

“We’re meant to expand and grow and lean into possibility—and alcohol is a means that kind of takes that away from us.” — Josh Woll

Resources Mentioned

• The Camino de Santiago — A 1,200-year-old network of pilgrimage trails throughout Europe ending in Santiago de Compostela, Spain.

• The Sober Creative Reset — The public 30-day sobriety challenge that inspired the format of the Reset program.

• The Sober Creative Method™ — Josh’s 90-day coaching framework (Release → Create → Become).

• Sacred Business Flow on Substack — The business community where Josh and Rebecca first connected.

  Sacred Business Flow

  Clarity, visibility, clients. A business that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.

  By Phil Powis ❤️⚡️

• Menu del Día — The Spanish “menu of the day” concept, discussed as a window into intentional, non-consumptive drinking culture.

• Kyle Larson NASCAR Documentary — Coming to Amazon Prime; a recent project near completion Josh worked on during his 20-year career in video production.

Where to Find Rebecca Weston

The Camino Calls

I inspire people 45+ to walk the Camino de Santiago. With 14+ years of experience, I share tips in my Sunday newsletter, host live interviews, and lead small-group walks—guiding the first 3 days so you’re confident to continue on your own.

By Rebecca Weston

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to , , , , , and many others for who joined us live for this conversation, and to for her warmth, curiosity, and the beautiful world she’s built around the Camino de Santiago. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

Every Pilgrimage Begins Where the Path Enters

This conversation with Rebecca reminded me of something I keep coming back to: the most powerful journeys aren’t always the ones that take you across a country. Sometimes the most important walk you take is inward.

If something in this episode stirred something in you—if you’re wondering what your work looks like when recovery is no longer compromised, when your mornings come online faster, when focus stops breaking—that’s worth paying attention to.

The Sober Creative Reset is a 30-day guided alcohol-free container for people who rely on focus, judgment, and creative output. It’s not rehab. It’s not a lifetime decision. It’s a performance experiment—and a chance to see what changes when the interference is removed.

What’s included: daily reflections, awareness and grounding practices, weekly guidance and check-ins, and a private community for accountability and support.

No labels. No pressure. Just 30 days of clarity.

Early access pricing opens March 1st for 24 hours only.

• 🗝️ Early Access Price: $149 (March 1st only — 24 hours)

• 🌿 Regular Price: $199 (after March 1st)

Awareness grows here.

Learn More

— the developer behind WriteStack, a productivity tool built specifically for Substack creators — joined for a spontaneous Substack Live session that quickly turned into something far more meaningful than a product demo. What started as an introduction turned into a deep exploration of how we use distraction to escape discomfort, how addiction shows up in unexpected places, and why the simple act of pausing can change everything.

Orel’s story mirrors so many of ours in ways you might not expect. His addiction wasn’t alcohol — it was video games. For 16 years, from age 8 to 24, gaming consumed him in ways he didn’t fully understand until a family vacation moment forced him to see it clearly. His path out? Reading books during COVID. His path back to himself? Awareness — the same practice at the core of everything The Sober Creative is about.

Show Notes

[00:00] Introductions — Two Creators, One Unscripted Conversation

• Josh introduces himself as the founder of The Sober Creative, focused on helping people understand that alcohol is a barrier to building the life they want

• Orel, who built WriteStack, jumped on after a spontaneous invite — no script, no agenda

• Both Josh (44, sober 5.5 years) and Orel had deep histories with substance and behavioral patterns they didn’t initially recognize as addiction

• The casual format created space for radical honesty from the very first minute

Key Insight: “My focus in my newsletter is helping people realize that alcohol is a barrier towards basically like building a life of your dreams.” — Josh

[00:56] Redefining Addiction — It’s Not What You Think

• Josh breaks down the word addiction itself: “add” + “iction” (friction) — something rising in the body that causes discomfort, and a need to add something to ease it

• This reframe removes the shame from the word. People aren’t broken — they’re responding to friction

• Alcohol, video games, food, sex — all serve the same function: temporarily easing internal discomfort

• Awareness becomes the first and most powerful step: once you can see the pattern, you can begin working with it

Key Insight: “The addiction of adding something to help ease and help you feel better when you feel discomfort in your mind and body is what I think addiction is. And so it’s not a problem. People don’t have a problem.” — Josh

[06:37] Orel’s Story — 16 Years of Gaming and the Moment That Changed It

• Orel started playing video games at age 8 — MapleStory, then League of Legends and beyond

• At his peak, he’d play 12+ hours a day during school breaks, going to sleep thinking about the game and waking up just to get back to it

• The turning point came on a rare family vacation: he lied about feeling sick to stay in the hotel room and play — then felt so awful mid-game that he closed the laptop and went outside

• “That was kind of the moment that your awareness... started kicking in.” It didn’t change his behavior immediately — but it planted a seed

Key Insight: “I thought I could play some games here. And so I told them that I don’t want to, I don’t feel so good. And I came up with some excuses... And then the moment they left, I opened my laptop and played a game. And throughout this game, I felt so awful that I just stayed in the room and I didn’t go out.” — Orel

[10:03] Replacing One Addiction with Another — and Why That’s Common

• During COVID at age 24, Orel discovered books — and reading slowly replaced gaming

• It took about 18 months of consistent reading before the pull of gaming faded

• Josh reflects that this pattern is incredibly common: “There’s some unmet need that’s buried underneath all this shit” — and we keep searching for something to fill it

• Both men share how sobriety and letting go of addictive patterns opened the door to real optimization: meditation, sleep, fitness, intentional living

• Josh talks about the compounding effects of five and a half years without alcohol — each practice reinforcing the next

Key Insight: “Throughout the past five and a half years, it’s given me the opportunity to be with more uncomfortable emotions and just let them kind of come up and feel them and move through them versus like, oh, I need to escape.” — Josh

[16:56] The Trigger-Thought Loop — Why We Escape Without Knowing It

• Orel shares a real-time example: when stress spikes while working on WriteStack, he opens chess.com, plays 30-40 minutes, then feels awful — losing both time and momentum

• Josh explains the neuroscience behind it: we have 60,000 to 70,000 thoughts per day — a trigger thought flashes by so quickly that by the time you’re acting on the discomfort, you’ve already forgotten what started it

• He describes it like Velcro: once you’re in a reactive state, everything starts sticking — small annoyances become catastrophic

• The antidote isn’t willpower. It’s building the muscle of pausing — catching yourself in the moment before the escape behavior kicks in

Key Insight: “I feel like there’s some Velcro too, right? Like when you get into that state, you’re more prone to the things that don’t typically bother you. And they just kind of exacerbate and grow on top of that.” — Josh

[23:08] Practical Awareness Tools — Meditation, Breath, and the Chair Exercise

• Orel shares a deceptively simple practice: count every time you sit down or get up from a chair throughout the day — just to practice noticing

• Josh connects this directly to meditation: the breath is the anchor you keep returning to when thoughts pull you away — same principle, different form

• Orel opens up about having meditated consistently for three years, then stopping — and only realizing what he’d lost after quitting, when even five minutes felt impossible

• “The thing about meditation, it’s harder to notice, way harder to notice than the gym” — the gains are invisible until they’re gone

Key Insight: “You can’t just hit brakes on a Ferrari when you’re going 100-plus miles per hour.” — Josh

[30:17] The Substack Live Ecosystem — Growth, WriteStack, and Authentic Community

• (a top Substack creator) shared inside information: Substack is pushing live hard in 2026, actively pushing notifications and building a Substack TV app for smart TVs

• Orel is building WriteStack with intention — refusing to add auto-DMs, AI-generated comments, or automated engagement features that feel like spam

• “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should” — both Josh and Orel align on preserving the human, authentic feel of Substack

• Orel’s engagement formula: likes = 1 point, comments = 5 points, restacks = 10 points — and his data shows engagement is directly correlated with subscriber growth

Key Insight: “I just don’t want to automate the direct message. That’s the worst, I think. On Twitter, it’s just awful. And I don’t want it to be, at least not on WriteStack.” — Orel

[34:36] WriteStack — What It Does and What’s Coming

• WriteStack is a productivity layer built on top of Substack — helping creators manage their activity center with keyboard shortcuts, streamlined commenting, and smarter engagement workflows

• Josh’s favorite feature: the activity center, which lets you fly through 30-50 comments and replies quickly and intentionally

• A new Follows feature is coming — allowing creators to track only the notes and comments from specific writers they choose, without scrolling the full feed

• Orel is also working on a Substack chat replacement with real search, tagging, and better organization — staying true to the platform’s values while filling in the gaps

Key Insight: “I feel like that’s a really strong one because you have 30, 40, 50 replies and comments and such that you need to go through. And having the quick keys — just such a nerd about those quick keys.” — Josh

Key Quotes

“The addiction of adding something to help ease and help you feel better when you feel discomfort in your mind and body is what I think addiction is. And so it’s not a problem. People don’t have a problem.” — Josh

“Throughout the past five and a half years, it’s given me the opportunity to be with more uncomfortable emotions and just let them kind of come up and feel them and move through them versus like, oh, I need to escape.” — Josh

“I felt so awful that I just stayed in the room and I didn’t go out. That’s when I started realizing how big of a problem it is.” — Orel

“You can’t just hit brakes on a Ferrari when you’re going 100-plus miles per hour.” — Josh

“I just don’t like when people write AI comments to me, then I won’t give others the option to do that through WriteStack.” — Orel

Resources Mentioned

• WriteStack — A Substack productivity tool with activity center, keyboard shortcuts, a Follows feature (coming soon), and an enhanced chat replacement in development

• Substack Live — Substack’s live video feature, actively being pushed by the platform in 2026

• Substack TV — A new app allowing Substack content to be viewed on smart TVs via Google

• OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) — Mentioned as a tool for streaming/screen sharing

• MapleStory / League of Legends — Referenced as examples in Orel’s gaming addiction story

• Sacred Business Flow — The coaching program (with coaches Phil and Carolina) that helped Josh shape the vision for The Sober Creative

• The concept of 60,000–70,000 daily thoughts — Referenced from Josh’s reading on neuroscience and the brain’s threat-detection wiring

Where to Find Orel and WriteStack

The Indiepreneur

Join hundreds of readers for a weekly post about entrepreneurship, the life of the entrepreneur and lessons from my entrepreneurship journey.

By Orel

Orel is the creator of WriteStack and The Indiepreneur, a tool designed to help Substack writers engage more efficiently and authentically.

Find him on Substack and look for WriteStack — you can connect with him there and follow his work as new features roll out in 2026. He’s also planning more Substack Lives in the coming weeks before heading to Thailand for three weeks.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to , , , and to for showing up with such openness and authenticity. Conversations like this one — raw, unscripted, and real — are exactly why this community exists.

Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

If You're In That Gap

This conversation touched on something we talk about a lot here at The Sober Creative: the gap between knowing something needs to change and actually doing the work to change it.

Orel knew at 21 his gaming had become a problem. It took until 26 to shift. Josh knew alcohol was slowing him down years before he finally committed — and that commitment was the moment everything changed.

If you’re somewhere in that gap right now — if something is adding friction to your life and your creative work — the first step isn’t a program. It’s honesty.

Answer 10 questions about where you actually are. I’ll look at your responses and send you a personal video within 24 hours with what I’m seeing and what might be possible for you.

No categories. No instant score. Just a real conversation about what’s actually going on.

Take the Free Assessment